CONFERENCE AT NEW PLYMOUTH, 1980
© NZ Command LF
LEGION OF FRONTIERSMEN
OF THE COMMONWEALTH
NEW ZEALAND COMMAND INC
Minutes of the 1980 Conference of the Legion of Frontiersmen,
held in the Race Course Complex, New Plymouth on Saturday 31st May 1980.
PRESENT AT THE TOP TABLE:
Lieut Col G.R. Dowman
Major C.T. Bathe
Major M.K. McCallum
Major R. Burling
Lieut G. Shepherd
Lieut L. Chalk
Lieut F. Milner
RSM N. Somerville
Capt D. Walker
Pnr W. Dyson
DELEGATES:
A
Capt P.L. Fromont, S/Maj D. Yorke, Lieut R. Hammond, QMS B. Coker, Fm Prowse
BCapt H. Fraser, Lieut W. Ututaonga, R. Wilson, B. Rikihana, R. Baker, G. Buckworth, A. Edwards, M. Howard
ELieut J. Penney, M. Friday, K. Baker, D. Baker, E. Smith, G. Baker, T. Grace, E. Marsh, E. Hughes
FSgt A. Myers
GLieut A. Nesbitt, Pnr J. Wilks, QMS W. Hodgson, Fm Cooper
HLieut Henry, Fm R. Powell
JCapt Partridge, Lieut H. Spence, D.J. Baker, Lieut Bowen, Fm Lynch, Cousins
KA.J. Wallis, M. Winter
LLieut Bishop, Lieut Dalton, QMS R.M. McLeod, Lieut N. Dalton, Lieut S. Green, Lieut R. Seamark, Sgt A. Lepper, Sgt T. Pitt, Sgt M. Longstaff, SSM R. Ostler, Sgt A. Hammill, Sgt D. Dawson, Cpl I. McKinnon, Capt O. Cameron, Cpl J. Nesbitt, Fm G. Holmes, F. Wilcox, V. Dawson, T. Willcox,
N. Parrish, L. Beardmore, J. Hunt, C.M. Tuck, F. Antill, S. Hart, D. Dawson
MLieut K.M. Walton, Lieut D. West
NCapt D.S. Funnell, Lieut D. Dawson, Lieut Walraven,
S. M. Anthony, Cpl Williams, Fm W. Fairless
OLieut G. Thoumine, Sgt D. Tuheke
PLieut R.C. Eltringham, Sgt/Sec D. Baxter, Fm T. Robinson, L. Parrish
TFm/Sec A. Flockhart, C. Wharton, S. Tane, M. Edwards, L. Timu
UCapt R. Taylor, Lieut C. Crutch
W Sgt W.A. Stokes, Cpl G.M. Stokes, Fm M.C. Stokes
XE. Board
YCapt R.P Nielson, QMS A. Teasdale, Fm J.P. Kane, R.C Leslie, G. Grindley
ZLieut D.L Falwasser, B. Campbell, B. Henry, S Adlam
CAPT WALKER: I would like to welcome Lieut Col Downan, Councillor Fletcher-Smith who is representing the Mayor, who has had to go to a funeral. Members of Headquarters, Fellow Frontiersmen and wives, I must apologise for the Padre who has not yet arrived; so I am hoping he will arrive before the conference is opened. I hope you had a pleasant journey here, and that you have a good weekend, Conference and no major controversies, and all have a very enjoyable weekend. With that I will hand you over to Lieut Col Dowman.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Thank you Capt Walker. I would like to welcome city Councillor Fletcher-Smith who is representing the Mayor who in unable to be with us, also the ladies and visitors. As you know the Salvation Army Captain has not yet arrived. Before we start proceedings, I would like to show a mark of respect to our late Commandant. I will ask you all to stand for a moment of silence please. Thank you. It is a very great privilege for me to be here today, I am usually one of the backroom boys, but today due to being the deputy, I am out front and I am going to carry on as Jim would say, let’s go on, not back. I would like to say to Councillor Smith how much I appreciate coming to New Plymouth. He mentioned a few minutes ago, the place doesn’t alter much, I think it does, I come here quite a lot and have noticed a lot of changes, and it is all a credit to New Plymouth Councillors and their staff. This building we are in today is a great complex. The progress made round the district since I have been coming here is quite remarkable. With those few words I would like to invite Councillor Smith to officially open our conference.
COUNCILLOR FLETCHER-SMITH: Thank you very much Lieut Col Dowman, Officers, Frontiersmen, Ladies and visitors, I hope that encompasses everybody. It is indeed a real pleasure to be here. I am sometimes quite pleased that the Mayor cannot make it to a special occasion like this, fir it enables councillors to get out and see what does go on in the city. I am especially pleased to come along to talk to, quite briefly, members of what I call a community organisation. Members of an organisation who base their work on the welfare of the community. Before I go on, thank you for your comments with respect to the city and its well-being, we are proud of our city, though a little anxious at the moment, when we hear of people who turn up to say we are going to spend five hundred million dollars on an industry here. When we begin to add up the figures we find that the total is becoming around a thousand million dollars now, in terms of industrial development. We wonder if our city can survive this sort of change, but I think we can see that in the past we have had changes taking place, we have had large industries moving in, and we found that our city and our surrounding areas have managed to absorb these changes quite readily. I don’t think our city and surrounds have changed too much and our essential character is still there; and of course will always be there while we have that fine mountain that happens to be just over there, and I know you haven’t seen it; I hope you do before you go, we also have an attractive coastline there which you may not have seen yet.
I think I should do two things in the moment I have on my feet, and that is to welcome you to the city and to recognise the work that you do. We have many community organisations involved and concerned with our communities. Councillors, I am sure, would be the first to respect the fact that it is work, and this effort goes a long way to not only involving the enthusiasm and energies of people in our community, but goes a long way to providing well-being in the community, security and safety. This must make people feel a lot better for the communities and cities and the areas in which they live. I commend you for the work that you are doing, I am pleased to be able to tell you that you have the respect of the community, and the community appreciates what you do in complimenting the policing authorities, because that is basically your role as I have seen it. Oh, I think it is a very good role, and one that is worthwhile and I can see in our own community, for the very reasons I have mentioned and the changes that are taking place, the role of an organisation such as yours is a very worthwhile one. It is a pleasure to be here and to welcome you to New Plymouth and to open your conference, sorry the Mayor is not here, but he is attending a funeral, so he has a very reasonable excuse this morning, but he has said that he will be with you this evening, and I think he might have an opportunity to talk to you then.
The Mayor has a number of friends within your ranks, and I am not sure whether in telling me yesterday that he was going to be present at the evening function, he was suggesting that that was a promise or a threat.
On behalf of the Mayor, the councillors, the citizens of New Plymouth and myself, I extend here a most cordial welcome to the city. I hope you have a most enjoyable and constructive Conference, and hope when you decide to leave New Plymouth and go home, you have a most successful journey home. It gives me great pleasure to officially declare your Conference open.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: As I mentioned before, our Padre has not turned up, someone has just whispered in my ear that there is a Padre on the floor, would that be right? I wonder, would he come forward and bless this Conference for us?
PADRE G. BAKER: I will say a prayer first in Maori and the same thing in Pakeha, and after that we will all stand and repeat the Lord’s Prayer. In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, and honour the souls and the faithful. The Father, son and Holy Spirit and the Creator of all things that do exist. Amen. The Lord’s Prayer and first verse of the National Anthem.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: I wish to thank the Padre for coming forward, thank you very much Sir, you helped us out of a spot. At this stage I don’t think there is any point in continuing our Conference, we usually adjourn about this time for a cup of tea, so we ask Councillor Smith, visitors, wives and friends to stay with us for morning tea.
Morning tea adjournment: 10.20am
Conference resumed: 10.55am
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: I will now ask the Staff Adjutant to read the abbreviated version of the Minutes of the last Conference, there were some 30 odd pages, and I don’t think you would like to sit and listen to all that.
CAPT WALKER ‘L’: Sir, as the abridged minutes were published in the Journal, I would suggest that we take them as read. Seconded: Pnr Dyson
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: We have a seconder and a mover – all in favour - CARRIED
MAJOR BATHE: (At this point Major Bathe gave a short resume on the Minutes, outlining the few items that had been omitted.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Any discussion on the Minutes. There must be something that you must have looked at your Journal and queried some of the items which were there. No discussion on the minutes – will someone move that the minutes be adopted? Moved Stokes ‘W’, Seconded Powell ‘N’, - CARRIED
APOLOGIES: Cpl Wiggins ‘Y’, Lieut Col France U.K (who also sent his best wishes), Pnr Honore, Lieut Bannister ‘K’, Capt Ratu, Fm Stanford, McKinley ‘X’, Sgt Pearce, Fm Walgrove, Mills, Rossi ‘L’, Capt Tamaki ‘E’, Capt Pearcy ‘X’, Bongard ‘T’, Sgt Hicks, Fm Eustace, Cameron, Ingram, Aldred ‘Z’, R.J Brown, Capt Forbes ‘R’, Lieut Hampton, Sgt/Sec Mills, Fm Karipu ‘U’, Sid Gillard, Pnr Logan, Sgt Wilson, Lieut R. Gundersen ‘D’; Moved Stokes ‘W’m seconded Powell ‘H’ CARRIED.
OBITUARIES: Col Commandant J. Sampson, Late Commandant J. Congreve, Pnr H.M.W Clements ‘M’, Pnr J. Cooper, Pnr E.H King, G. King ‘P’, Pnr A.C Thompson, T. Brighouse ‘A’, A.P Jensen ‘W’.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Read the Deputy Commandant’s Report.
MAJOR McCALLUM: Read and explained the Balance Sheet and Income & Expenditure as tabled.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: The Balance Sheet and report are now open for discussion. I’m afraid I’ve beat the gun, will someone move that the Balance Sheet be received. Dyson ‘A’, Powell ‘N’
DALTON ‘l’: Major McCallum pointed out about the Hutt Valley Drainage loan, I think that headquarters should not do the same as last time when this came up, it should be taken out and reinvested at a reasonable rate of interest, or take into the current account, because I think we are only getting about 3% or something and I know we can do a lot better than that. I feel that the incoming headquarters should look very closely for somewhere else to invest that money.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: At the time this was renewed, it was something like three years ago, we thought about it at the time and the interest didn’t seem too bad, but I would agree with you that we could now do better. Thank you. Any other matters you would like explained by the Records Office. All in favour of the adoption of the Balance Sheet and report as read and explained. CARRIED.
As you know, at this Conference there is the election of the new Commandant. Ballots have been taken and I have the results here in an envelope in front of me and I haven’t a clue who is the winning candidate, I would ask therefore Pioneer Baker and Lieutenant Hammond to come forward and I will proceed by opening the envelope in front of you and see who is the lucky or unlucky one. Ballot for Commandant 1980, we the undersigned confirm that the results of this ballot, the counting of which was witnessed this evening as set out here:-
Douglas John Baker……………………………………….275
Ray Hammond…………………………………………..…122
Successful Candidate: D. Baker, Applause
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Pioneer Baker would you care to join us at the top table.
PIONEER BAKER: With your permission Sir, I would be more than pleased to spend the whole of the Conference with the boys down at the front, I always get the impression that some of them might start throwing peanuts. So with your permission, Sir, I will oblige you by trying to control them from down here for this reason.
MAJOR BATHE: Frontiersmen, as directed by regulations I bought the ballot papers to Conference for instructions as to their disposal,
CAMPBELL ‘Z’: I move that the papers be destroyed, Seconded: Stokes ‘W’
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: I will ask the Staff Adjutant to read the correspondence, such as it is, there isn’t much, unlike our headquarters executive meetings.
MAJOR BATHE: Sir, it won’t take very long, there is just one letter.
From 21 Beach Street, Staff Adjutant, Legion of Frontiersmen.
Sir, would you please convey my heartfelt thanks to all members of the Legion of Frontiersmen, for the great help that was given to my late brother Jim Sampson, and his family at the time of his passing. I have always had a great regard for the Legion, as I had an early association with them when my father was a member, but I am overwhelmed by their thoughtfulness at the present time. Once again many thanks.
Yours sincerely Lois Abbot
There is no other correspondence.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Thank you, we will now have a look at the remits. I would ask the delegate from ‘Y’ Squadron to come forward and read their remit. First, have we a seconder for this remit? It cannot be ‘Y’ Squadron.
BOARD ‘X’: On behalf of ‘X’ Squadron, I have much pleasure in seconding this.
NIELSEN ‘Y’: REMIT 1. Sec 114 of the Legio Handbook. After the end of the first sentence insert: ‘A member may qualify on completion of ten years efficient service provided he has attended at least 75% of all Squadron/Troop Meetings and Parades in each year of service. Serious illness should not be held against a member’s attendance record.’
Reason: When we initiate a new member, we ask him to agree to attend meetings and parades, as ordered, as often as possible, but nowhere in the handbook do we make provision for rewarding a members good attendance record. By adding the above we will be giving new members some incentive to live up to their obligations. In the Fire Brigade, St John’s Ambulance, they have their service stars and awards for service that they do, if their service is good and their attendance regular, they are awarded but we make no provision whatsoever for rewarding service as such. We do ha the Long Service & Efficiency Medal which may be presented to a member, he does not get it ‘as of right’, and I think if we do it this way we are giving him some incentive to earn the medal, and perhaps make our units more efficient, instead of relying on the same one or two for every duty and woking bee, That Sir is all I can say at this stage.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Anyone wish to speak on the remit?
The following members: Fromont ‘A’, Nielsen ‘Y’, Dalton ‘L’, Longstaff ‘L’, Bathe ‘HQ’, Stokes ‘W’, Wallis ‘K’, Spence ‘J’, all took part in a long discussion.
I formally put the remit, would all in favour of this remit as explained by Capt Nielsen. Do you want a show of hands or a card vote. The remit was LOST on a show of hands
The result of this vote on remit 1 eliminates remits 2 & 3. On to remit 4, Capt Nielsen. Seconder for remit 4, J Squadron.
NIELSEN ‘Y’: Sec 145, Delete the word ‘Registered’. Reason: Experience has shown that, when it is necessary to send a final notice the member is not interested and never pays up anyway, and with the high cost of registered post it is just a waste of money. To refresh your memory, section 145 deals with any member who has not paid his subscription by the end of the financial year, 31st December, shall automatically cease to belong to the Legion and shall be struck off through squadron orders and such member advised accordingly. To prevent injustice, the said secretary, prior to the expiration of the squadrons’ financial year, inform the member by registered letter that he will become liable for exclusion from December 31st. It is the word ‘registered’ we want to delete Sir, it is costing almost a dollar to register a letter. In ‘Y’ Squadron a lot of personal contact is made with defaulting members and we feel that the member is well advised beforehand that he is going to be struck off, by word of mouth anyway and the letter part is only the formal side of it. Post being what it is today, most letters get through anyway. To prevent more expense, we propose that the word ‘registered’ be deleted.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Thank you Capt Nielsen, are there any speakers on this one. The following members were speakers on the remit: Campbell ‘Z’, Bathe ‘Y’, Fromont ‘A’, Beardmore ‘L’, after a lengthy discussion the remit was CARRIED on a show of hands.
BEARDMORE ‘L’: I have a small point of order. I don’t want to throw a spanner in the works, but, from memory, I have an idea that all votes must be taken by card vote, is that not right. Whether that still stands or not I cannot say.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Capt Walker has just suggested that we might adjourn the meeting and have our photographs taken. We will adjourn the meeting at this stage, and look into that matter Pnr Beardmore when Conference resumes.
Morning session of Conference closed at 11.45am.
Afternoon session of Conference resumed at 2.05pm.
BATHE ‘HQ’: Sir, in answer to the question placed before the break, balloting shall be done with coloured marbles or names on a piece of paper. This method shall be used when balloting on a proposed member and election of officers. Otherwise, section 74, voting shall be on voices or a show of hands. Any member has the right to demand a division and on such demand the Chairman shall call for a show of hands. That is what the handbook rule is.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: We no go on to remit 5 from ‘A’ Squadron, will the delegate from ‘A’ Squadron please come forward and read it?
FROMONT ‘A’: remit 5 is an addition to Sec 29 and Sec 116 and reversal of Sec 119. ‘Squadron or Troop Treasurer. To be selected at annual meetings for one year’ Reason: it could help stop any malpractice and safeguard the officers
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Thank you Capt Fromont, have we a seconder for this remit please? Seconded: Nielsen ‘Y’.
Any speakers on this remit please? A short and varied discussion took place, those taking part included Fromont ‘A’, Funnell ‘N’, Wallis ‘K’, Beardmore ‘L’, Penny ‘E’, Dalton ‘L’.
Remit was LOST on a show of hands.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Remit 6 also comes from ‘A’ Squadron, Captain Fromont please.
FROMONT ‘A’: Remit 6 refers to the “Toast to the 9000”. We would like this toast returned to the original. Some 9000 members of the Legion of Frontiersmen paid the supreme sacrifice in the Great Wars. Let us strive to see that that sacrifice was not made in vain. They have handed down to us a trust, let us not prove unworthy.
Toast:
They shall grow not old,
as we who are left grow old,
age shall not weary them,
nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun,
and in the morning,
we will remember them,
the 9000.
The reason for it is that we believe that this version of the Toast has more meaning to the Legion as a whole than to just one country. Seconded: Dalton ‘L’.
When most of us joined the Legion, going back a few years, some a long time further back than me, the Toast to the 9000 as I have just read out to you was part of heritage and part of the get together that the Legion had. We got to know it by heart, it was used for years and years as it first appeared as written in the 1937 handbook. There was no further mention of a toast until the handbook before last. The version that was printed in that handbook, the origin of which we don’t know, the words that you will see for that toast, we now know it was an Australian Toast, what we don’t know is how it came to get into the handbook. When we have this toast, which we will have this evening, and let’s hope that most squadrons and troops have these toasts at 9.00pm, the names that appear – the Burma track, Desert sands, perhaps the names or Blue and Tom and Jack have nothing to do with the Legion, the 9000 was made up at Gallipoli, Passchendaele, Ypres, places overseas, places where the Legion was founded in blood.
That is what we honour, too often some of our members prefer to reap rewards of what the 9000 have done. I wonder when the Toast is taken, I wonder is this how we would like those 9000 to have seen us, or to see us now. It has meaning, the old Toast, we have the National Park monument. This Toast in the handbook means nothing of that. There is too much history of the Legion, the unwritten history, which has been left by the wayside. If we have this Toast, the original Toast to the 9000, we use it, it does mean something to us.
LIEUT COL DOWMAN: Are there any speakers on this remit? Let us put it this way, is there anyone opposing that remit? I don’t think so. I formally move this remit. CARRIED BY VOICE.
The next remit is from Waihi Troop of ‘J’ Squadron, would Lieut Bowen please read the remit.
BOWEN ‘J’: Remit 7: ‘J’ Squadron would like to see the service performed by cadets credited to them when they become Frontiersmen.
Reason: At present there is no provision for crediting cadets time when the become Frontiersmen, so valuable service time is lost to these members. Seconded: Stokes ‘W’
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Thank you, now we will have some speakers on it. A long discussion was had on this remit giving various points of view, the speakers being Wallis ‘K’, Burling ‘HQ’, Spence ‘J’, Winter ‘K’, Beardmore ‘L’, Bowen ‘J’, Baker ‘J’, Walraven ‘N’, McCallum ‘HQ’, Anthony ‘L’, Stokes ‘W’, Taylor ‘U’, Sommerville ‘HQ’, Fromont ‘A’, Bathe ‘HQ’, Dalton ‘L’, Dawson ‘L’, Shepherd ‘HQ’, Fraser ‘B’, Hammond ‘A’. The final comments were as follows:-
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Gentlemen, it would appear that this remit was passed some time ago at Dunedin, allowing half of a cadets time to be recognised, would you be prepared to accept that at this time.
BOWEN ‘J’: It was the intention of the remit that all service be recognised.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: You haven’t stated that in the remit, so you must make that plain.
BOWEN ‘J’: The intention of the remit was all service put in by cadets, 100% should be credited to him.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Alright, then I will put the remit, all in favour for cadets receiving full time credit as served.
DALTON ‘L’: In view of the contention of this remit, I move that there be a card vote.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Right, we will have a card vote. CARRIED 21-10
The remit was carried 21-10, the cadets will be given full recognition of their time. This will be put as from now, as this was the Conference it was passed, and this is where it was decided.
Further discussion took place on this remit, but this did not affect the voting result.
BATHE ‘HQ’: Frontiersmen, a year ago ‘A’ Squadron brought forward a remit asking that we re-affirm our Oath of Allegiance to the Legion, and our late Commandant was so taken by it, he had it done immediately. One of the last things he said to me was, “I want to see that happen at every Conference from now on.” We will not take a vote on it, you will all be upstanding with your handbooks and follow me with the Legion Dedication, page 39.All stood and repeated the Oath of Allegiance. I had a query at Conference last year asking, does this mean that new members to the Legion do not need to be sworn in. Well it doesn’t mean that, you are not short-circuiting that, if you have some new members here who are half way through their probation, they still finish it and are sworn in, in the proper way.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Sorry gentlemen, I have made a bit of a blunder, will you please dress easy. It is a bit late in the day, you might be getting a bit hot and may like to undo your belts. Now on to General Business. This is where you will really undo your belts.
SOMMERVILLE ‘HQ’: Sir, may I bring this forward now in view of the argument and the apparent lack of anything governing a cadet service. I will now move what I put through as an amendment earlier. That HQ be instructed to set up a sub-committee to bring forward to next Conference, a draft of the regulations that cover cadet service. Hopefully Sir, if the committee bring forward a reasonable draft set of regulations, that will settle the matter once and for all. Seconded: Fraser ‘B’
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Alright, it is moved and seconded, all in favour. CARRIED
WALLIS ‘K’: Not very much of a grizzle this year. Black buttons for those in mourning. Will Headquarters put out a ruling please, of which button must be blacked out? Recently I have been out where two of three Squadrons have been and have seen the top one and the second one blacked out. Now I would like a firm set ruling put through the journal on this.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Fm Wallis, I think, were you at the OC Meeting this morning. We did talk about this and we did decide that HQ would go into this. There seems to be a little bit of confusion about it since we changed to open neck tunics. I know the theory behind the broken chain, but we did discuss it and HQ have agreed to go into this. I don’t know if we can give a decision here or not. I don’t think it would be fair to even try.
WALLIS ‘K’: Sir, all I am asking is that it be put through the journal, then every member can read it. As a recommendation if you like, I don’t care how you put it, but have it in the front of the Journal where every member should read it.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: I have been advised that it has been put through the Journal. Obviously they don’t read their Journals.
FROMONT ‘A’: On the matter of the button, this is another one of those things that have been lost. It is an historical thing with the Legion, and it has been lost by the wayside. I can remember the days when anyone who wore a hat or a belt in a bar Sir, they paid a round. That was another one of them, and there are others. As far back as I can remember it, it is the second button being blacked out and denotes the break in the chain of comradeship, the change of the tunic Sir has nothing to do with it. The top button as we were ordered does not suit that basis of the broken chain of comradeship.
DALTON ‘L’: The late Commandant Sampson was very strong on this, and I am quite sure that he did put it in the Journal. He said it doesn’t matter, it is not a link in the chain, a link in the chain is missing, the chain will never break, not in the chain of comradeship in the Legion, ant this is Col Sampson’s very words. He is the one we are wearing the black button for today. As far as Jim Sampson goes, well what he said was good enough for me.
BATHE ‘HQ’: Frontiersmen, I definitely remember the late Col Sampson making that rule, at the same time, to refresh your memories perhaps, he also ruled the mourning in units would be worn for one months, or until after the next squadron meeting, whichever came first, remember that? Like my friend here, I am an admirer of Jim Sampson and his ideas. I will give you another practical one, and this is that every officer will rub black off the second button, if you wear that one. It was a good thing when we wore the high neck tunics, because it showed well there, but with this tunic it is the practical approach to it, and as Jim said “never mind about breaking the chain, we have lost a link off anyway, and that is what matters.”
SOMMERVILLE ‘HQ’: Sir, I have here a list of amendments which I would like to propose to some of our shooting trophy rules. It has been very obvious over the last couple of years that there is a certain amount of confusion and on reading the rules through they differ from one another, just sufficiently for units to become confused. Unfortunately this has on some occasions through misunderstanding led to units being disqualified for some of these trophies. Now the list I have here, the following be made these rules.
Memorial Cup: Rule 3. The words ‘one optional sighter’ be deleted, and the following inserted ‘two optional sighters’ which if not taken must be marked off before further shots are fired.
D’Esterre Cup: Rule 9. The words ‘one optional sighter’ be deleted, and the same words as for the Memorial Cup be inserted. That is two optional sighters marked off if not taken.
Allan Bridge Shield: Rule 4. The words ‘one compulsory’ be deleted and the following inserted ‘two optional’.
Pioneer Cup: Rule 9. That the words ‘one optional sighter’ it be deleted and the following inserted, ‘two optional sighters and if the first two shots are taken as sighters ….’ And reading that in context with the rules it follows on that they must be deleted. /I think Sir, that they will avoid confusion, I believe one member of one unit complained bitterly here this morning that there was nothing in the rules saying that the sighters had to be marked off, before the subsequent shots are fired. He was amazed when it was pointed out to him in the Rule Book, but in one or two cases it is not there, so I think that these amendments will make it clear, and possibly, or hopefully avoid confusion in the future.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: You have all heard these suggested amendments, is there anything contentious about them that you would like to discuss --- first can we have a seconder? SECONDED: NIELSEN ‘Y’
Discussion then took place on the new proposed amendments and the following were speakers. Antill ‘L’, Dowman ‘HQ’, Dalton ‘L’, Bathe ‘HQ’, Bell ‘A’.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: You have all that, and the discussion on it, the rules as proposed by our Sergeant Major here, all in favour. CARRIED.
CAMERON ‘L’: I would say that HQ are trying to make us very, very honest chaps. I would say the bigger percentage would be marking them out after the card comes back.
SOMMERVILLE ‘HQ’: That’s over to the Range Officer isn’t it?
HAMMOND ‘A’: Getting back to these remits that are passed, what actually happens to them, and who is responsible in seeing that they are put into operation?
BATHE ‘HQ’: As far as I can see Lieut Hammond, they will be published in the Journal with the minutes, beyond that, I feel like you --- puzzled. I have been to Conferences over the past 35 years and all sorts of marvellous things have been passed as remits, and they get lost in some pigeon hole I think, of some mythical HQ. Like you I can think of any amount of them right back into Col Findlater’s time. Oh yes, that is going to make the Legion, that’s going to block up a big hole or whatever, and you never hear another thing about it. I think our newly elected Commanding Officer should --- I told him some time ago that if he got in, he was going to get some headaches, that is one little headache I think he will have to look at. We did start at one time, all the amendments to the handbook would be printed, supposedly to fit exactly into the handbook, the same paragraphs, but when they came to paste them in, they would be half as big again, and you would lose half of the regulation that was not being altered. If it cam be done economically to have them printed, how may not being altered. If it can be done economically to have them printed, how many of you --- about 100 here, do get a bit of glue and stick those amendments into your handbooks, about 4 or 5 of you. I had better sit down or will be asking how many have got your handbooks with you.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: In Brig Puklowski’s time, I can remember them being printed and circulated
HAMMOND ‘A’: It hasn’t happened for the last 3 or 4 years, and we have spent a fair while arguing.
BURLING ‘HQ’: There is one point Sir that is being overlooked by the Conference and perhaps by HQ, and that is, that some of these remits affect our Constitution and that has got to be registered with the Incorporated Societies.
BATHE ‘HQ’: That has been done by the late Col Sampson within the last year or so.
BURLING ‘HQ’: When you are putting through a remit you have to make sure that it doesn’t effect the Constitution. If there is a correction made, it has got to be registered and you have to pay for that registration
ANTHONY ‘N’: Made an observation on the standard of dress and how this should and could be improved. Other speakers on the topic were: Sommerville ‘HQ’, Bowen ‘J’, Wallis ‘K’, Dowman ‘HQ’, and Taylor ‘U’.
WALLIS ‘K’: Something which was pointed out to me today, some officers say that their Sergeant Majors should not wear patches; there is only one Sergeant Major in this hall who should not wear a patch and that is the Regimental Sergeant Major, all the rest a Sergeant Majors second class.
Conference adjourned for tea at 3.45pm and resumed at 4.10pm.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Gentlemen, any further general business?
CHALK ‘HQ’: Sir, I would like permission of this Conference to supply one of the Legion’s old Flying Corps uniforms to the Museum at Ohakea; I think showing it there some of the Air Force coming out could be interested in the Legion. By putting this on loan, not giving it, would help in this way. We have donated two uniforms to the Waiouru Museum, I am not sure if they are on display yet or not.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Are you all in favour of that idea? CARRIED
TAYLOR ‘U’: Regarding the Museum in Ferrymede, we are still going ahead and putting all our gear there, we were asked for as much equipment as we could spare. If any of you have any double issues of old photographs, they would be welcome. I have one going back to 1918, I think it was a Conference, and also one from 1908, when Roger Pocock was in South Africa. I have made enquiries about a horse, we had decided we would have a horse with a rider in Legion uniform of the old days for the museum. The bulk of horses are chopped up for dog food, so the taxidermist made a model, it is full size to scale, this is then sent to a fibreglass firm and they make a fibreglass mould, when put together it is finished off by the taxidermist by putting on the eyes, mane, tail and colouring it. The mouth actually opened so a bit can be put in it. The estimated cost of this is $1200; the reason I mentioned this is I was wondering if it were possible to put a levy on each Legion head --- say $2.50 per member to go towards the cost so we can carry on with this.
Again this topic was open for discussion, and the following offered their comments; Dowman ‘HQ’, Walraven ‘N’, Baker ‘J’, and the discussion continued as follows;
BAKER ‘J’: I would like to comment on this, a man has just put up a constructive objective, and we immediately start looking at the cost and the benefit to the mainland. He is putting it up as a benefit to the whole of the Legion Command, and he is trying to preserve an era of the Legion of Frontiersmen, and he suggested $2.50 per head, and with 540 strong, he has got the whole of his horse --- is that the way it goes. Personally I hate the sight of raffles, and I don’t think there is anyone else who really enjoys them, and for one, if he wants to start I will certainly put my $2.50 in to start the horse rolling in the South Island.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Capt Taylor, you will get your horse, a whole horse.
BAKER ‘J’: You are going to get a winner, there is no second place.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: I will leave it with you Capt Taylor, just collect it as they go out the door.
TAYLOR ‘U’: I think it will have to be done the right way, and a list to go to all who donate. Thank you very much for your co-operation.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: There are one or two things I want to skip over fairly quickly, for we have to be out of here soon, we have the presentation of cups yet and one or two other things which have cropped up here, the National Park Memorial, no-one has brought that up, I went passed there yesterday, and the day before and someone has to look at that, Taupo what is the situation there?
POWELL ‘H’: We have been negotiating to go out to fix it up at the appropriate time, but over the period we have been fairly busy, we had talked about going out there a while back.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: So something will be done about it very soon? The ground is eroding away from the southern side of it. The telephone pole might just fall over.
POWELL ‘H’: There is quite a bit of work to be done on the fence, chain guard and what-have-you. There are broken posts, we will get someone over there and get something done.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: 1981 Conference ‘J’ Squadron, Tauranga, and 1982 I believe there is a whisper going around regarding that.
NESBITT ‘G’: ‘G’ Squadron would like to host the Conference for 1982,
BATHE ‘HQ’: Col Dowman, fellow Frontiersmen, I haven’t given up trying to get that pole alongside our Memorial at National Park shifted, I have just been trying to find the letter, I had forgotten it, I must admit. About three months ago I chased up the King Country Power Board, I have finally gotten a reply. They are prepared to shift the pole twenty metres back at a cost of $539, which would be made up of underground cabling and of running the lights back to the telephone box. The engineer said he had consulted with the P&T and they say they will not shift the telephone box. If the box was shifted twenty metres they could then do the job and rewire the box for $100, would we be interested in meeting that cost or half of it, for I would love to take on that fight with the P&T. That thing was put there along side a Memorial that was there long before there was any telephone, and next year being an election year, I am prepared to go to our local member or any other member and have a go. We will have to make some offer of co-operation with the Power Board, and I would feel if we are prepared to $50 of the $100 we might get something. It is over to you to decide.
POWELL ‘H’: If that pole was shifted would they consider shifting the telephone box.
BATHE ‘HQ’: /no, the P&T certainly will not shift the box.
POWELL ‘H’: It wouldn’t be any good whatsoever paying the money if they are not shifting the box.
BATHE ‘HQ’: The argument is for them to shift the pole, provided to box was shifted, they could to the job for $100 and we would pay half. Then I am prepared to the Minister for the P&T, I will go anywhere you like and have a go to get that box shifted. A tin pot Post Office Engineer in Taumarunui is not going to dictate to 500 Frontiersmen throughout New Zealand, not on a thing like that.
POWELL ‘H’: I will have a yarn with the Post Office in Taupo, they do an area around here as well, and perhaps there could be a bit of liaison between the two of them and we might get something done.
FUNNELL ‘N’: Major Bathe, you said you wanted $100, ‘N’ Squadron will donate it
BATHE ‘HQ’: Right! The fight is on. I will go ahead. Comment from the floor --- we have bought a horse and moved a box in one day.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Will Pioneer Baker please approach the bench. My apologies, Col Baker, I think Col Baker has a few words to say to you, at least I hope he has
COL BAKER: Frontiersmen, you will have no problem in hearing me, and over the next three years I hope we will go far together. It is very pleasing to see so many faces here today, all clean, bright shiny Frontiersmen; we are going to face a period where we want more, it is not going to be easy, but what is easy in our life today. Absolutely nothing. Nothing is really easy, and the ones that fight for the things that they want, get the things they need. I am sure that with your support and the support that you have given to the HQ that are going out, and let’s face it chaps, they deserve a hand from the floor, if you all took note of the Balance Sheet, what a fantastic start. I have already planned a trip to England (Maj McCallum – too late Doug, I have mine booked already). There you are, some are planning to leave already, but it is a credit to HQ to show such a terrific Balance Sheet for the incoming HQ to set off with. I am a little concerned with some of the directives they are leaving behind for the new HQ, I have always suggested on committees, you make your policy, but you cannot set a policy for the incoming man, but I am sure the stirrer, I beg your pardon Sir, and the men we are fortunate enough to choose and go with me, I will try to make it interesting, every bit as interesting as it has been over the last year. Thank you very much.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Thank you, that leaves us with the presentation of the Shooting Cups.
WALLIS ‘K’: I would like to thank the Stenographer for the amount of work she has to do, and what she has to put up with, it is a hard job and well appreciated, on behalf of all members here I would heartily thank her very much for doing the job that she has to do. Also I would like to thank the outgoing HQ for the work that they have done for the past three years from all the members down here. Thank you.
SOMMERVILLE ‘HQ’:
Pioneer Cup: ‘Y’ Squadron, 297 points – 3 off possible.
Memorial Cup: ‘L’ Squadron.
D’Esterre Cup: ‘L’ Squadron also won.
Allen Bridge Shield: but as they haven’t returned it they can’t have it presented this year.
Western Cup: ‘Y’ Squadron.
Trans Tasman Cup: For inter-colonial competition, I have had no reply and Garden Cup from Australia as far as I know they have not competed, so I assume the cups go to the New Zealand team ‘J’ Squadron.
Chalk Cup: Which is presented to the highest individual scorer in the Pioneer and Weston Cups goes to ‘J’ Squadron.
Andrew Cup: We cannot present, it is the runner-up to the D’Esterre Cup, and there was no runner-up.
Victory Cup: For the largest number of new members ‘Y; Squadron.
DOWMAN ‘HQ’: Gentlemen, that seems to have tied up most things, all I have left to do now is to take a leaf out of Capt Wallis’s book and thank a few people. Firstly, special thanks to ‘L’ Squadron, Capt Walker for the organisation of this Conference, he has done a tremendous lot for me, they all have. I feel they have done a very good job, the weather hasn’t been exactly what we expected but there is better coming they tell me. Next I would like to thank all members here, the way you have helped run this Conference so smoothly. I was quite reluctant at the start but I think I have settled down a little bit now, and am very pleased with the way it ha run. To HQ Staff who I have had the privilege of serving with for the past eleven years, it has been a pleasure working with all of you, and as it is the last time we will all be together for many years I would say, thank you very much one and all on HQ. Once again we wish to thank the stenographer, she does put in a tremendous lot of time, I know because at times I go around there and help them sort out problems of funny names that we get down. It is qute interesting at times particularly when you play back the tapes, yes all this is being taped, even so, it takes quite a bit of deciphering. Thank you, I think that just about winds it up, be on time tonight, particularly on time tomorrow morning, as Capt Walker said there will be an inspection and hopefully our new Commandant will be around to participate in that. With these few words I will declare the Conference officially closed.
Conference closed at 4.40pm
